Re:
Kirio1984, 10/08/2008 5.32:
cmq a me il ppv non piacque per niente..:-) Troppa confusione in wcw in quel periodo..
Ma questo è quello che sostengono il 99% delle persone che hanno visionato il PPV. Il restante 1% è formato da ultrà della wCw.
Gli unici commenti positivi che ho trovato a questo ppv, sono di gente che bazzica i forum,e che è anche molto vicina al nostro Rob.
Per quanto riguarda editoralisti affermati italiani, ma soprattutto americani, ho trovato solo insulti a questo PPV.
Ora vi traduco qualche stralcio da un pezzo di un editorialista americano, per dimostrarvi la realtà deformata e il revisionismo storico che viene praticato da Rob.
Innanzitutto l'americano dà *** all'opener, e ** al main event, Rob invece afferma che Booker vs JJ sia uno dei migliori match del 2000.
Il booking del match tra Storm e awesome è pessimo, non sono nemmeno riusciti a far tifare un canadese in casa, con tutto quel overbooking, mentre un match lineare avrebbe regalato più emozioni.
Tutti i match sono mal bookati. Nel triple threat il wrestling è stato esposto come un grande scherzo, con la roba tra Russo e Bill.
Il main event è disordinato, e overbooked. Un ME povero, persino per un PPV wCw. Booker T si ricorda di dover vendere il proprio infortunio alla gamba, nel post match, dopo che per 5 minuti non ha avuto alcun problema alla gamba.
Conclude dicendo che vi è stato solo un buono spotfest e null'altro. E' arrivato ad un punto che non riesce più a vedere show bookati da Russo, così questa è stata la sua ultima revisione in wCw. E' deprimente perdere tempo guardando questi show.
Insomma qui chiunque ha ricordi negativi, da questo americano, a Meltzer, a Ganz, a diversi utenti onesti, fino a me.
Come si può dire che questo sia stato il secondo miglior PPV del 2000?
Io dico basta con questo revisionismo storico, e dico basta con questa realtà travisata!!!!!
La wCw non va dimenticata, va riscoperta, ma non è giusto raccontare falsità alla gente, non è giusto crearsi una realtà che non esiste.
Ci sentiamo alla prossima revisione di un ppv wCw.....
Ecco quella dell'americano:
Testo nascosto - clicca qui
With the fans of WCW demanding more wrestling and less sportz entertainment it seemed that Russo would have to give in to their demands or watch the money continue to drain away. This was the situation leading into the New Blood Rising PPV.
We’re in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Hosts are Tony Schiavone, Mark Madden and Scott Hudson. Is it just me or does having those three guys make every show feel bad right from the start?
Ladder match - Three Count v Yung Dragons
I’ve done this match before. Seeing as it’s just a bunch of spots my opinion hasn’t really altered.
This is Evan Karagias, Shane "Hurricane" Helms and Shannon Moore vs Jamie-San (the masked Jamie Noble), Jimmy Yang and Kaz Hayashi. Why the ladders? Well up above the ring are a recording contract and Three Count's gold record. If 3 Count get them they get to keep recording if the Yung Dragons get them then they stop 3 Count recording. Tank Abbot is at ringside to support 3 Count. He went on record after leaving WCW that he loved doing the Three Count angle because he just got to goof around and got paid for it.
Ladder comes in early and Moore gets backdropped into it. OUCH. 3 Count get a double team in on Yang though with a powerbomb followed by a twisting splash from Moore. The Yung Dragons get racked up on the ladder and Moore is backdropped onto them. DOUBLE SPRINGBOARD DOOMSDAY DEVICES! Yang gets the chance to climb but gets shoved off into the ropes. Noble up the ladder - PLAAAAANCHAAAAAAA to the floor! Moore and Yang up adjacent ladders and Moore hits a not quite perfect Edgeomatic off them. Noble goes up so Helms neckbreakers him off. Hayashi up top and Karagias vertical suplexes him off. This feels like a TLC match. Hayashi with a ladder but Helms superkicks it back into his face. Dragons bring the spinkicks. Karagias powerslams Hayashi on a ladder. We get the ladder seesaw spot from No Mercy '99 except now it's Shannon Moore not Jeff Hardy diving onto the other end AND Helms hits a seesaw assisted Russian legsweep off it. Noble hits a super rana and up go the Dragons - DOUBLE LADDER SPLASH! Noble has the gold record at 9.06. But they still need the contract so Tank Abbot decides it's time to interject himself so he gets twatted with a ladder shot. Noble with a Tokyo Jam allowing the other Dragons to climb. They're joined by Three Count but that doesn't go anywhere. Noble grabs Moore off the ladder though and hits a SIT OUT POWERBOMB. That looked painful. Tank comes in to lay everyone out in his general plodding fashion. Karagias goes up and gets the contract at 11.28. Which is kind of a split decision. ***. The spots were good and looked to be going somewhere but the booking seemed to be putting Abbot over, which makes little sense because he's no damn good.
BACKSTAGE the Filthy Animals suck up to WCW commissioner Ernest Miller (how’d he get that position? I can’t remember). Disco’s “word to ya mother” line cracks me up. Miller kicks him out but adds the Animals to the tag title match as an assortment of special referees.
Great Muta v Ernest Miller
Oh boy. Russo has gone back on his promise to never hire Japanese wrestlers. Muta’s return has more to do with the Vampiro angle. He’d not been a regular in WCW since the early 90’s. Not entirely sure why he’s working Miller. Muta when he can’t be bothered is a truly horrendous sight. By 2000 Muta knew damn well he could get away with doing fuck all in the WCW ring and no one would notice. Hudson uses the term “legit heat”, which makes me want to reach into the TV set and punch him in the face. The commentators talk about the second W in WCW standing for wrestling. Someone should tell Vince Russo. Although they couldn’t because an internal memo circulated in WCW stated 10 Questions Not to Ask Vince Russo. One of them was “what does the second W in WCW stand for?” Around this time WCW actually reduced the control that Bischoff had over Russo thinking he was more to blame for the company being a disaster. Meanwhile in the match Tygress comes out to take a look. She used to be in the Nitro Girls but when the group was disbanded, because essentially it was a project to get Kim Page on TV, they tried to use the girls in different ways. Tygress got put in with the Filthy Animals seeing as their girl had buddied up with Billy Kidman who was off elsewhere. Muta works some lazy stuff in this one but at least attempts psychology by taking Miller’s leg and preventing the kicking. Miller uses the Feliner anyway for the pin at 6.47 after help from Tygress. DUD. What was the point of that again? At least Miller is over as he was one of the few guys that Russo got over (pretty much just him and Smiley).
BACKSTAGE Buff looks around for his Mom. At least she hasn’t rung in sick for him.
”Positively” Kanyon v Buff Bagwell
This is the infamous Judy Bagwell on a pole match. True to their ridiculous stipulations Judy isn’t even on a pole she’s on the front of a forklift. Buff is effectively being punished for being a jerk backstage. Kanyon rips on Canada and calls Judy a “big, fat battle axe” hence the change in the match title. She’s too heavy for a pole. This is so lame. Buff comes out here and they brawl into the crowd. Judy is screeching away in the background. The tape I have for this show is rolling so badly I can’t actually follow the match. Not that I’d want to. I’m not sure why Kanyon has taken exception to either Buff or Judy. Surely his feud, seeing as he’s imitating DDP, would be with Dallas Page. Of course DDP is probably injured as his health wasn’t great in 2000. Kanyon spends most of the match warming up Buff’s neck for the Kanyon Kutter. Kanyon exposes a buckle but Buff dumps him on it for 2. BANG! Kanyon Kutter…for 2. Crowd really isn’t responding to Kanyon. DDP’s music kicks in but it’s actually David Arquette. Sorry, former WCW world heavyweight champion David Arquette. I don’t see what the point is of having him come out here as his interference on behalf of Kanyon goes nowhere. Buff lays him out so Arquette jumps in there and Buff beats them both down. Double Blockbuster! Buff gets the pin at 6.45. DUD. So Kanyon gets interference on his behalf and that causes him to lose without a miscue? Ok then. Another burial.
POST MATCH things pick up for Kanyon who Kutter’s Arquette to a big pop. Arquette takes a great bump off it. He really threw himself into the move. I dig. Of course he’s good for a bump but not necessarily anything more than that. Like say, a world title.
BACKSTAGE a huge limo pulls up with LANCE STORM in it. POP~! The tape rolls so much I can’t tell what the commentators are talking about. In fact it rolls so badly I can’t finish the tape because I can’t tell what’s happening. So that’s it. Bye bye WCW. Here’s the rest of the card from Wikipedia…
KroniK (Brian Adams and Bryan Clark) defeated The Perfect Event (Shawn Stasiak and Chuck Palumbo), Sean O'Haire and Mark Jindrak and The Misfits in Action (General Rection and Cpl. Cajun) (w/Disco Inferno, Tygress and Rey Mysterio, Jr. as Special Guest Referees) in a Four Corners match to retain the WCW World Tag Team Championship (12:22)
KroniK pinned Palumbo. .
Looked like an incredible clusterfuck. The only good wrestler in the match was Chavo Guerrero Jr so I can’t believe that anything of any use happened. Chavo wasn’t in the match you say? Not so, he came down and put on a referee’s shirt (in a match with THREE special guest referees) and counted the finish. And Kronik somehow won because of this? I’ve given up trying to understand the logic of Vince Russo’s booking.
Billy Kidman defeated Shane Douglas (w/Torrie Wilson) in a Strap match (8:22) .
Douglas hasn’t been worth shit since jobbing the ECW title to Tazz. In fact he didn’t look great in those matches against Tazz either. He was broken down by that point. I think the arm injury pretty much marked the end of his career. Some of his matches since then have been nothing short of shocking. He’s actually a guy who could do Mark Madden’s job about a thousand times better than Mark Madden though. I’d have put him on commentary. Hey, it couldn’t have been any worse than what they already had going! Meanwhile Kidman has nothing thanks to a bad feud with Hogan where he got buried by never being shown as anything close to Hogan’s level. Which he isn’t but the idea of having him in that feud was to raise his profile. Didn’t work. The crowd never bought it because it was never sold to them right. So Kidman came out of it with a damaged reputation. He didn’t get his old reputation back until he turned face again. Luckily when the WWF bought WCW out most of the fans could only remember Kidman as the star he was long before the Hogan damage was done so he could walk back into his old position on the roster. There’s something positive about WCW in 2000; no one was watching so no permanent damage was done to anyone involved.
Major Gunns defeated Miss Hancock in a Rip off the Clothes match (6:43)
This ended in a pinfall and they did an angle with Stacey Kiebler losing a baby. Keep in mind how much everyone backstage in the WWF hated Russo for running the same angle with Terri Runnels. I think the basics of what Jim Cornette said about the angle remains true. He said that the angle never sold one ticket and never would because there’s no match to come from a lost pregnancy angle. All you’ll do is upset some of the female fans watching. Russo’s retort was that they did it on Dallas or Dynasty or some other soap opera. But people watch soap operas for storylines like that. Wrestling doesn’t have storylines like that because they don’t sell tickets. If Russo was using Dallas as a template for his booking then it’s no wonder it sucked. I’ve seen Russo’s shoot interview and every point he makes is wrong. He literally hasn’t got a clue what he’s talking about. It amazes me, to this day, that anyone would be dumb enough to fall for his bullshit and how a global wrestling company could let someone who knows nothing about wrestling run a wrestling company. In fact if you want to know what Russo said here’s a link to Brandon Truitt’s recap of the shoot Russo did. Makes for interesting reading. Some of it annoys me just reading it. Like him using a tequila bottle in the Juvi-Liger match for the IWGP junior heavyweight title. Antonio Inoki must have rolled his eyes at that one. There’s disrespecting people and then there’s disrespecting the business. Russo did both. Often without asking if it was ok.
Sting defeated The Demon (0:52)
Ah, the KISS Demon gimmick finally gets buried for good. I guess Russo hated it. WCW were never serious about pushing the gimmick so I don’t know why they bothered signing contracts with Kiss.
Lance Storm defeated Mike Awesome (w/Jacques Rougeau as Special Guest Referee) in a Canadian Rules match to retain the WCW United States Championship
Storm won when Rougeau attacked Awesome and Awesome couldn't get up before the 10 count.
Rougeau changed the rules during the match to make it so pinfalls had to be 5 counts, the title couldn't change hands by submission, a wrestler had a 10 count to get up after being pinned, and that a wrestler would lose if they couldn't get up before a 10 count.
Bret Hart came out to celebrate afterwards. The crowd had been baying for Bret pre-match before the special referee was announced. Although the heel Canadians cheated like crazy the crowd still popped it. This is a fine example of Russo not knowing his audience. He didn’t realise how the Canadian fans would react. The WWE always seems to know how fans will react in advance. Look at Rock-Hogan or Rock-Austin the year before. This match had HUGE potential btw and they screwed up by having it as overbooked as it was when a straight up match could have generated huge buzz. They could have had a great straight up match here and saved the bullshit match for back in the USA when the crowd would bite on it. But then patience is something that Russo doesn’t have any of. Why build up to something when you can do it right now? Who cares if the crowd doesn’t react right in the arena? It’s the ratings that matter! On PPV. Dumb fucking booker. Russo never understood that buyrates were all important and he just killed buyrates because he booked horseshit on PPV.
Vampiro and The Great Muta defeated KroniK (Brian Adams and Bryan Clark) to win the WCW World Tag Team Championship (9:06)
Muta pinned Clark after a moonsault.
As if one Kronik match wasn’t enough. Plus this one has added Vampiro. It was here to set up Kronik v the Harris Brothers. There’s no need to change champions. There’s no need to have Vampiro team up with anyone because it betrays the only character trait he has. Kronik and the Harris’s suck. Another thing Russo never fully understood was that a mixture of matches was needed. I don’t get how he understood the importance of Internet fans and booked specifically for them and somehow never booked anything they liked. There’s a fine example with this next match.
Kevin Nash defeated Goldberg and Scott Steiner (w/Midajah) in a Triple Threat match (10:48)
Nash pinned Steiner after a Jacknife Powerbomb.
So Russo knew the Internet or Smark fans understood booking. Duh. So they booked a match where Goldberg would refuse to lose thus exposing wrestling as a total joke. The smart fans on the ‘net bashed the hell out of the show for being so retarded and that was the audience that Russo was booking for. Just because fans understand that wrestling is pre-planned doesn’t mean they want a big sign on TV saying “this is fake” before every match. This truly stupid angle lead to Steiner losing to be “a good professional”. So the match that a lot of fans wanted to see as a three-way power match got reduced to a load of bullshit about booked finishes. And that makes people want to buy the next show…how? Hey, look at the ridiculously stupid thing we’ve done. Tune in next month and we may actually do something dumber. I would say this is the dumbest thing Russo ever did but by this point the whole of his WCW run was just one long string of stupidity. When people are chanting “Fire Russo” at TNA shows it’s because this is the level of booking that could crop up again at any time. And the thing that really bugs me is that Russo is convinced he was always right. That he always made the right choices and sticks by them. Like his decision to put the world title on David Arquette. He also tries to spin numbers to make himself look better although every number out there shows him to be a disastrously bad booker on every level.
Finally we have the title match, which I’ve done before.
WCW title - Booker T (c) v Jeff Jarrett
Booker is carrying a leg injury so Jarrett goes right after that from the get go. Jarrett makes a mistake looking for a rana though and Booker powerbombs him for 2. Booker's kicks look weaker with the injured leg, which introduces a high amount of injury psychology here. Or it would if Booker remembered to sell it from moment to moment. Missile dropkick from Booker and he sells on that so Jarrett just shrugs it off. Jarrett posts the leg, which should be curtains but he's not done - CHAIR SHOT. Back inside and Jarrett slaps on a Boston crab. Booker gets into the ropes. Interesting note is that the crowd is utterly dead, which is because Russo never used his existing main event talent to put over the younger guys - just pushed the young guys right into the main event against each other. Booker with a Brisco corner roll up for 2. Booker with a spinebuster for 2 with NO sign of selling the leg, which Jarrett has battered for the previous 5 minutes. Axe kick from Booker, again with no signs of selling. Spinneroonie but the ref is bumped. Jarrett decides to remind Booker about that bad leg - GUITAR SHOT TO THE KNEE! Figure 4, slapnutz! Booker sits in it for a while before getting the ropes. Sheesh, how flat was that? Jarrett won't break it because he's an asshole. Crowd doesn't care. Jarrett with the title belt, which presumably he's going to hit Booker in the leg with but ends up miscuing and hitting the referee in the face. That's ref bump #2. Is Stephanie McMahon booking this? Oh yeah, Russo. They fight onto the apron and Booker weakly pushes Jarrett off through a table, which was supposed to be a Bookend but Booker didn't even move. Back inside and Jarrett gets pinned for 2 but just bails out for a chair. Low blow, right in front of the ref who Jarrett chair shots for ref bump #3. Stroke on the chair on Booker but the ref is out. Jarrett covers anyway and out comes the 3rd referee for this match to count 2. Jarrett swings with a chair and misses so Booker botches a neckbreaker on the chair for 2. Jarrett comes off the top, gets caught in the Bookend, blocked, Bookend again and Booker goes over at 14.29. **. Messy and overbooked. Booker's selling was all over the place and towards the end the booking took over to replace the midcard wrestling. Weak for a main event, even in WCW. Booker remembers he's meant to be selling the leg post match despite not having sold it for the past 5 minutes or so.
The 411: One good spotfest, nothing else doing. Fire Russo *clap clap clapclapclap*. It’s now gotten to the point where I can’t watch any more shows Russo has booked. So this is my final WCW flashback. I was planning on going all the way through but it’s such a waste of my time and energy and it’s so depressing I think I’ll do something else instead. Anything else. Thanks for the memories WCW…rot in hell.
Final Score: 2.5 [ Very Bad ]
The Rob in town79
00sabato 16 agosto 2008 22:51
Re: Re:
anklelock89, 16/08/2008 19.24:
Ma questo è quello che sostengono il 99% delle persone che hanno visionato il PPV. Il restante 1% è formato da ultrà della wCw.
Gli unici commenti positivi che ho trovato a questo ppv, sono di gente che bazzica i forum,e che è anche molto vicina al nostro Rob.
Per quanto riguarda editoralisti affermati italiani, ma soprattutto americani, ho trovato solo insulti a questo PPV.
Hai mai letto la recensione che fece a New Blood Rising il sito italiano di wrestling più popolare a quel tempo? Su dai, lo conosci bene quel sito, ne sei un affezionato frequentatore.
![[SM=x867812]](https://img.freeforumzone.it/smiles/5/13.gif)
Al tempo, quando ci scriveva gente seria e competente, del PPV se ne occupò un ottimo editorialista-reporter, Andrea Martinelli, quando colui che tu definisci ottimo andava ancora in prima elementare. Leggiti cosa ne scrisse Martinelli.
Blindmark WCW anche lui?
Siamo tutti quindi dei blindmark, capisco.
La tua "insmontabile tesi" è stata smontata dopo
ben tre ore, stai migliorando, bravo. La prossima volta se non sono connesso rsisterà anche tre ore e mezza
![[SM=x867801]](https://img.freeforumzone.it/smiles/5/01.gif)
Ankie
00domenica 17 agosto 2008 08:51
Re: Re: Re:
The Rob in town79, 16/08/2008 22.51:
Hai mai letto la recensione che fece a New Blood Rising il sito italiano di wrestling più popolare a quel tempo? Su dai, lo conosci bene quel sito, ne sei un affezionato frequentatore.
Al tempo, quando ci scriveva gente seria e competente, del PPV se ne occupò un ottimo editorialista-reporter, Andrea Martinelli, quando colui che tu definisci ottimo andava ancora in prima elementare. Leggiti cosa ne scrisse Martinelli.
Blindmark WCW anche lui?
Siamo tutti quindi dei blindmark, capisco.
La tua "insmontabile tesi" è stata smontata dopo
ben tre ore, stai migliorando, bravo. La prossima volta se non sono connesso rsisterà anche tre ore e mezza
A Principe del Foro, non hai smontato proprio un bel niente.
Quello di Martinelli è un semplice report, dove non ci sono opinioni, ma si limita a commentare le azioni avvenute.
Quindi non capisco proprio cosa c'entri nel discorso il report di Martinelli. Non ho letto neanche un commento positivo sulla wCw da parte sua, e non ci sono proprio commenti in quel report.
L'unico commento che c'è a dire il vero è questo :
"anche se resto del parere che Booker T. non sia in grado di rappresentare una delle tre federazioni più importanti al mondo, non rispecchia certo la linea WCW, è un campione poco coerente"
Quindi come al solito hai preso un granchio, e pure bello grosso stavolta, ed hai avvalorato la mia di tesi, grazie.
Forse ti riferivi magari ad un editoriale che ora non è più accessibile, non so.
Metallo rulez
00domenica 17 agosto 2008 09:28
Una gemma sto topic...